By the way, if you don't know what XMPP is. It is a messaging protocol. You can get started with #Quicksy or #Prav.

@vort3 @ravi more exactly Quicksy fork, so now people can choose between #Quicksy and #Prav. The value addition over conversations is, this bindling of app, client and a directory makes joining #xmpp easy for people who are used to apps that only needs your phone number.

@janvlug #Signal is better than #WhatsApp, but still centralized. The entire world depending on a Single organization is not very sustainable. We have Quicksy and Prav both giving the same convenience of Signal without lock-in. #Quicksy and #Prav users can talk to each other and to any other #XMPP app.

To actually practice the freedom to improve a software, we should be able to self host the server part (not necessarily each person has to self host, but that option can offer real choice).

@iznogoud @xmpp indeed, contact discovery is an identified issue.

There are some answers, such as Snikket from @snikket_im which uses an invitation mechanism, or Quicksy authored by @daniel which uses phone number as other IM platforms.

I have ideas for another decentralized contact discovery mechanism, but lacking time to work on it and specify it right now. @debacle is also interested in working on such specification.

There are also public search mechanisms.

@bshankar I wanted to comment on your blog post https://bshankar.pages.dev/getting-family-on-xmpp/ (saw it on fsci group)

#Quicksy would have been the simpler option for most people. But unfortunately Quicksy is mostly driven by a single person from Germany and mass adoption and publicity seem to be not a priority for them. So we are trying to promote the idea of Quicksy through a cooperative run project called @prav You are welcome to join this effort to take the idea Quicksy to the masses.

@uexo @praveen @ronald @ravi Yes but the conversations are still compromised, so there is no advantage to using #xmpp and it very much limits who you can talk to because most people have never heard of xmpp, and of those that have, some have tried it and decided it's too complicated, while many others just prefer to be on a larger, more well-known platform. And yes, you are kind of restricting the freedom of others, because now no one using xmpp can be certain they are not having a conversation with someone who has given up privacy for convenience, thus making the entire conversation vulnerable. Sure, there is always some degree of trust involved when you are talking to someone else, but that other person may not think that using #Quicksy is an important detail to disclose to conversation partners. So in my opinion, the fact that Quicksy exists totally destroys the freedom of all other xmpp users to know that they are conversing over a reasonably private and secure connection. It's like saying that the Quicksy users aren't peeing in your end of the swimming pool, so it doesn't affect you. And since #Signal is far easier to set up and use, and gives you a much wider universe of people to talk to, you might just as well use that.

I mean, if Quicksy ever ditched phone numbers and let you use a made up identifier, I would have a much higher opinion of them, but right now I think they should be expelled from the xmpp universe. Also, uexo, it seem you just want to argue all the time and I am sick of wasting my time arguing with you about fucking xmpp related topics, so I am blocking you. Life is too short to be constantly aruging with someone who just wants to argue.

@praveen @ronald @ravi But again, one of the big reasons people don't want to use #WhatsApp, or #Telegram (or in some cases, #Signal), other than having some aversion to big corporations, is because they want their conversations to be private and secure. And is a service requires your phone number than it is NOT private. And if you are having a conversation with someone and THEY have given up their phone number, then your conversations with them are not truly private.

I hate #Quicksy with the fire of a thousand burning suns because I feel it is the one #xmpp platform that just should not exist. It bring a level of insecurity to xmpp that has not previously existed, all because they are giving up privacy for convenience. Personally I simply would not trust that kind of platform. I understand what you are saying; there are people who are more than willing to give up privacy for convenience, in this case the convenience of only needing to use a phone number as an identifier. And in that case I say why not just leave them alone and let them stay on WhatsApp or Telegram or Signal; they are no worse off there and all their family and friends are probably there already. In fact I would argue that Signal is a far better choice for such folks, at least for now, because at least there they get more security than when using WhatsApp or Telegram and they will have a much larger community of people to talk to.